Symphony vs. Aria/Dawn: Comparing the Grind

Another Big Damn Castlevania post! Sorry, but I’m still entranced by Dracula X Chronicles and thist stuff has been on my mind quite a bit lately. These are the types of posts I love writing most, which is a shame because I’m sure almost no one cares to read them. (Heh.)

I’ve had a lot of discussions about grinding in the various Castlevania games; probably way more than is healthy. And it inevitably comes back around to the same thing: I say I dislike Dawn of Sorrow because there’s too much grind, and the Other Guy (who really, really likes Dawn of Sorrow) tells me that’s stupid because you don’t have to grind. Why complain about something that’s optional? If you don’t like it, just don’t do it.

And, in truth, I don’t. I avoid the grind in Dawn by simply not playing the game. In fact, I went looking for my copy today and couldn’t find it. I must have loaned it out or traded it in and completely forgotten about it. Meanwhile I’ve played it’s big brother Symphony of the Night three or four times this year, and its ancient third cousin Super Metroid probably thrice that. Those games are fun, see, because there’s no grind, optional or otherwise.

It’s well-known that different players approach games with different mindsets. I’m an Explorer, and I most enjoy games that accomodate that play style. It’s not just exploring the physical game world, although I do enjoy that aspect of it; I enjoy exploring the game itself. I like pushing against it as hard as I can, trying to slip my toes into the seams. If a game tells me to go left my very first instinct is to try going right… for no other reason than just ’cause.

At the core of every Metroidvania is an empty world map, a series of loosely connected blocks. Initially the Explorer’s goal is to color those blocks in… to put our mark on the game world. You can look at a half-explored map and say, “I have been There and There, but not There,” and set about figuring a path to that third There. But as I’ve said, that’s only half of the game.

The other half, pushing at the game just to see if it will push back, is more fundamental; it involves exploring how you interact with the game world. It’s not so much a question of taking your little video game man everywhere he can go, but seeing everything he can do. This manifests in Metroidvanias as the character’s moveset; the more a character can do, the more ways he interacts with the game world, and the further the player can use that character as an instrument to push against the game.

So why do I love Symphony but not Dawn? The answer lay in how the different characters expand their movesets. Alucard in Symphony gets them by picking up objects in the game world; Soma in Dawn gets them from random monster drops.

At first the distinction doesn’t seem so severe. After all, Alucard has his share of random drops too. (Anyone who has spent an hour Schmoo-hunting can attest to that.) In fact, Soma’s random drops are on average more common than Alucard’s. That is, while filling out their respective maps Soma is likely to have far more souls than Alucard does rare equipment. Alucard’s drops, though, don’t really alter what he can do, and that makes all the difference.

Just as an example: Alucard starts the game out with some pretty boss equipment but only a few moves. He can jump (just once), backslide, or swing his sword. This serves him well for about three rooms, whereupon he is mugged by Death and loses his equipment, and therefore the ability to swing his sword. Now he has to resort to punching instead. Another three rooms, though, and he punches a skeleton to death and gets a much, much weaker sword. Equipping this restores his “swing sword” ability.

The trick is, swinging the super-sword isn’t appreciably different from swinging the weak sword. This remains true for most of the new swords Alucard gets in the game. His stats change, and he can do more damage with some swords than others, but that core ability remains about the same. In fact, while there are dozens of weapons to choose from in Symphony they all fall into one of three or four weapon categories. So 99% of the time when Alucard lucks into a rare drop he’s not getting a new way to interact with the game world so much as making his old method a little stronger (or weaker).

Soma, on the other hand, explores a game world in which every individual enemy gives him a unique ability. When the ghost waiter gives up his drop Soma doesn’t just get the +2 Waiter Sword; he gets the ability to destroy enemies with bowls of curry, which have properties all their own. Nothing else in the game flies in the same arc, or the same distance, or has the same sound effect or animation as that bowl of curry.

At the end of the day, if you’ve filled out their maps, Alucard will have a complete moveset and Soma will not. When you reach the door to the final boss an Alucard player can reasonably say, “I have seen everything this character can do, and have explored his interactions with this world to my satisfaction.” A Soma player doesn’t have that luxury. There’s really nothing for it; if that Soma player wants to finish exploring his character he has no choice but to kill monsters repeatedly until they all give up their souls.

So when you tell someone, on the subject of Dawn of Sorrow, “You don’t have to grind,” what you’re really telling them is “You don’t have to explore.” Which makes very little sense to players like me, because explore is what we do in these games.

Fixing Dawn would be almost stupidly easy: just remove the random element of soul drops. The first time you kill a monster, it yeilds a soul, guaranteed. Doesn’t that game sound like way more fun to play? What, exactly, does the grinding element add to the experience?

A version of Dawn with guaranteed soul drops ensures the player has a constant stream of new toys to play with. A soul never gets passed up because the player doesn’t feel like pressing a particular button sequence thirty times in a row (enter room, swing sword, swing sword, backdash, backdash, enter room, swing sword, swing sword, etc.). If the player is having trouble killing a boss or tackling some other obstacle he can boil down the solution to “which of my souls will be most useful here?” and not “which of the enemies I passed up six areas ago has a soul that will be most useful here?” Answering the first question is fun; it involves experimentation, and perhaps refinement of skill. In finding the answer to the first question the player can learn something new and advance his understanding of the game. (There’s a safe spot in that boss fight that you can only exploit with the red-hot-curry attack’s unique flight path!)

Answering the second question, however, is boring. It involves re-visiting old territory to do something tedious. The player gains no understanding from killing that twenty-fourth succubus that he didn’t already have upon killing the twenty-third. That twenty-fourth kill doesn’t require more skill, either; enter-swing-backdash isn’t a very challenging sequence of actions, and it’s not likely the player will get much better at it over time.

So that’s the difference between Alucard’s game and Soma’s game. They’re running something totally different under their respective hoods, despite how similar they look on the surface. It’s why Symphony remains fun into its twelfth replay while Dawn just kind of evaporated without my ever noticing.

It occurs to me that I could probably write an equally lengthy post comparing the arcade-style Castlevanias as well; how is it that I can absolutely adore Super Castlevania IV even though I pretty much loathe everything about the original? I’ll save that for another day, though.

10 comments to Symphony vs. Aria/Dawn: Comparing the Grind

  • ShakeWell

    I get where you’re coming from, and SotN IS more fun, but to me that didn’t make DoS UNfun, just not as good.

  • Merus

    Alternatively, the souls could be made less unique, so that the bowl of curry has the same arc as a skeleton bone.

    Still, I think something’d be lost if a soul dropped from the first monster you kill – the game differentiates between “killing a monster” and “owning a soul of that monster” in the bestiary, and as an Explorer myself I kind of hate losing that graduation. I’d like to see something in between – having ways to guarantee a soul dropping, with sufficient preparation.

    I’ve an idea stolen (and modified) from FFXII that appeals to me – every enemy has an “elemental” alignment and a weakness (ideally, elements wouldn’t relate to each other, so fire enemies wouldn’t necessarily be weak to ice), and killing enemies of the same alignment makes your weapons take on that alignment, which wears off after a time or if you kill an enemy of a different alignment. If you kill an enemy while aligned to the element they’re weak against, they’re guaranteed to drop a soul. The appeal here is that you carry the alignment through the map – a monster like the merman might be vulnerable to Shadow, so you kill a few zombies, then kill a merman, and you get his soul. A monster like the Final Guard, however, might be vulnerable to Water, which means you need to carry a Water alignment from the bottom of the map to the top. With some thought, you’d be able to build some interesting scenarios out of those mechanics – going back to the Final Guard example, if you scattered isolated Water enemies through the map, far apart enough that you couldn’t kill two in a row before the buff wore off, and built the mechanics so that killing a Water-aligned enemy with a Water-aligned weapon increased the time the buff stayed active (to a sensible limit, say five kills in a row), you’d have a little course for players to discover and run. They’d have to charge up their weapon in the caverns, head out to the first Water enemy to reset the buff, then go to the next one until they reached the Final Guard.

  • Ossobucco

    The main problem with having DoS enemies drop souls for every kill is that it would give players virtually automatic access to all the best souls, which are brokenly powerful and make the game incredibly easy. The fix for this is still pretty simple of course: just lock those souls behind extremely difficult enemies or optional bosses rather than hours of godforsaken enter-kill-backdash-repeating. Or just nerf them a bit, but they shouldn`t do that because that would suck.

    Also, Symphony had grinding for cash if you wanted to get the Duplicator, and I -always- wanted to get the Duplicator, so I kind of hated it for that until I got my Gameshark years later.

    • Brickroad

      The Duplicator is damn fun and worth the trouble to grind up at least once just for the novelty of it. I kind of wish you could start a Replay save with a Duplicator already equipped and play the whole game using Boomerangs and Magic Missiles.

  • MCBanjoMike

    Making all of the souls guaranteed drops would remove my favorite aspect of DoS, which is that everyone who goes through the game can come out with a completely different skillset and, by extension, experience. Your way just sounds boring – or, to put it another way, it sounds like every other game ever. You made it to room X? Great, now you have weapon Y, which you will then use for the rest of the game! For a game that’s designed to be replayed (like any Castlevania game, really), I think it’s the best thing ever that you can play it twice and end up approaching things in two completely different ways.

    So I guess what I’m trying to say is that I still think you’re crazy.

    • Brickroad

      Comparing the experience of two different players is not really useful because a player can only ever judge a game based on his own experience with it. If you play DoS and get a bunch of fun souls, and your buddy plays it and gets a bunch of lame ones, you may call the difference in play a strength but it doesn’t change the fact that your buddy had a lousy experience. Plus, both Aria and Dawn have a few required souls which, if you don’t luck into them, you must grind for. Not to fill out a list or satisfy some hunger, but to finish the game.

      Most of the strong Castlevania games offer replay value in the form of alternate paths, alternate characters or alternate playstyles for the main character, so I don’t buy the “you aren’t supposed to explore, you’re supposed to make do with what you get” argument. Rondo, Aria and Symphony are all very strong in that regard.

  • Not_from_LOTR_Balrog

    While I’ll admit that SotN looks better and sounds better than all the GBA/DS entries, I have to say that I go back and replay DoS more than I do SotN and the random drops are a big part of it. There is a core soul set I’ve gotten in each playthrough but it’s the souls I didn’t get in the previous game that make the most recent playthrough interesting. It’s like going back and replaying Mega Man 2 with a new weapon.

    I wouldn’t fault anyone for liking SotN better though. The game is definitely more enjoyable to completionists because of the map completion to game completion ratio is nearly 1:1.

  • Kadj

    “Category: Survivor”

  • Vengeance

    Wow, I totally agree. While i truly hate the grinding in DoS, I really enjoy Sotn and even AoS.

    I dont mind grinding 1 or 2 souls per playthrough (yes, I just love AoS’ valkyrie slash) but DoS is just ridiculous in this. Apart from grinding the Erynis (ok, again, thats my bad) this time you needed souls for weapons (lolz iron golem) and even passing certain obstacles (yes, the pillars).
    Sometimes I got a playthrough with all the lucky drops, but then I felt lucky instead of satisfied.

    It’s so tedious to have to go back and farm ukobacks just to remove a part of the obstacle which isnt optional at all.(not for a good ending at least) The whole bone pillar thing was simply atrocious. How am i supposed to find out that I need 1 specific soul IN THE WHOLE GAME to pass that ocean of spikes? No hints at all. And even if they did drop a hint, I still needed to farm it… Im glad I stumbled upon that cutall trick early on… luckily.

    And sure, Aria had its shares too, but these souls somehow always ended up getting in my inventory unnoticed anyway. (as if those specific droprates are increased or something?)

    I do like the concept that each playthough can differ in AoS and Dos, which is a plus indeed, but the droprates are just sad when the game dictates that you need a specific soul. What wouldve been awesome is if the player could somehow acquire a limited (expensive?) useable item that garentees a soul drop, maybe even with having it’s own versions. Like LVL1 guarentees could 100% drop a Axe armor soul, but for higher leveled creatures, you would need more powerfull versions of it. But then again, this sounds even more like pokemon.

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